Piper Aircraft ceased production of the Comanche and Twin Comanche in 1972, several years before the General Aviation Manufactures Association (GAMA) established specifications for the contemporary Pilot’s Operating Handbook (POH). 0000000907 00000 n 0000000696 00000 n The 260 was also available as the Turbo Comanche C with a Rajay turbocharger and was introduced in 1970. In 1972, there were two single-engine Comanche models still in production—the 260 and turbo 260. That extra payload has to go for fuel to feed the IO-720, meaning that for flights of more than 300 miles, the 400 actually has less payload available than the 260. Because of its classic vintage, the Comanche is easy to understand mechanically. 0000010952 00000 n The 250 and 260 are better performers. On the other hand, the 400 offers spectacular performance—at least for 1964 technology—with max cruise in the 185-to-195-knot range. The engines are identical, but with a different propeller redline. For a time recently, renowned attorney F. Lee Bailey-who souped up the PA-30 Twin Comanche into the Bailey Bullet-even contemplated remanufacturing single-engine Comanches. Burning 8 to 10 GPH, it will cruise at about 140 knots. We call it our magic carpet ride. The Comanche 260 is fun to fly, fast, responsive and stable for IFR. I am the second owner of a 1966 B-model Comanche that I purchased in 1985 and have 4000 hours in the airplane. Comanche-400 Wally Graham, a sapphire miner from Inverell had one in the early 70's. Instead, the Comanche was a thoroughly modern design focused on speed and good looks, and targeting the high-performance piston-single market being tapped by the Beech Bonanza and Cessna 210, among others. As a result, the Owner’s Handbook published by Piper is incomplete by modern standards. Also, the carbureted O-540 found in the Comanche 250 may be upgraded to fuel injection. For the purchase price of a Cessna 172 you get a complex, high-performance transcontinental airplane. I have since flown the Comanche 800 hours, flew to AirVenture at Oshkosh, Wisconsin, several times, flew around the United States and even flew along the New York Hudson River corridor and around the Statue of Liberty. Horsepower: 1 x 260 HP. The Comanche 400 proved that you can have too much of a good thing. While the airplane isn’t intrinsically difficult to service, system age cannot be ignored: Even the newest Comanche is approaching 40 years of age. Both are available for the 250 (which requires some additional mods) or the 260. Piper built 148 Comanches with an eight-cylinder, 400 hp engine up front. Resent overhaul on turbos. There have been cooling problems with the rear cylinders. It will cruise at 16,000 feet at over 170 knots true airspeed and burn about 14 GPH. The onboard XM Weather system has eliminated dangerous weather mistakes that were common decades ago. The mods that can offer the most speed include relocating the brakes to the inside of the gear forks, gap seals, wheel well slippers and wingroot fairings, both front and rear. Ive flown from Las Vegas, Nevada, to Eastern Iowa at 17,000 feet, nonstop several times and still had over an hour of fuel remaining. Even heeding all of my advice, expect to spend money to acquire and keep an aging Comanche. The name of this great light twin rather gives the game away. Of course nobody to this day knows how fast a Bonanza would go with the same engine, but logic would dictate that it would be at least a little bit faster. 0000002538 00000 n After years of distance-traveling in my airplane (to places I never would have visited if it weren’t for my Comanche), I believe a full-featured autopilot is perhaps the most useful avionics system you can buy. v�+8�0/3�Ҙ���C;̃�� ��c!Ghǡ��"��Q��G����Jk�Usɧ�y����@�� m���`9×���i%���S���f��xќ��L But after 1960, most Comanches were delivered with optional toe brakes. Then Tropical Storm Agnes drove the Susquehanna River out of its banks and wiped out Piper’s Lock Haven factory. But Howard Piper had other plans. Unmodified Comanches fly the same, just a little slower. If not, the selling price should be adjusted to reflect a cost of $1500 per bladder. 0000004788 00000 n Your cost for EAGLE XP Cowling COMANCHE 180: $15,600.00 INSTALLED COMANCHE 250: $15,900.00 INSTALLED COMANCHE 260: $11,800.00 INSTALLED (Does Not Include Painting) Upon shutdown, this allows the oil to drain from the hot turbos instead of remaining inside them and cooking. A South African company is even building an all-composite lookalike for the kit-built crowd, the Ravin. Turbo and 400HP A turbonormalized version of the Comanche C was offered alongside the normally aspirated bird in 1970. The 400 Comanche would get out and boogy around 210 mph, at which point it truly was a Bonanza killer. 1969 Piper Twin Turbo Comanche: Beauty, speed, and economy – all in one package! The 400 Comanche carries 130 gallons of fuel (124 usable) so, at altitude, easy math proves the airplane has long legs. The Comanche Society and our Comanche owner friends have made our social life from medicine come alive. This beast had a normally aspirated, fuel-injected, eight-cylinder Lycoming IO-720-A1A fitted with a three-blade prop. ��} �w5������� &��H@��x8��?10�fZ�VGh����ړ�*ty�@s10D�L@l �|�@��� Z) Converting the engine from four cylinders to six can be signed off with a logbook entry. The early airplanes were equipped with hand brakes. Comanches come in models from the 180 to the 400, twin and single and can be equipped with everything from day VFR with one navcom to … Their excellent build quality with total corrosion proofing before assembly and compound curve panels meant that the underlying cost structure was greater than emerging designs from either Piper or its competitors. xref Ive found that many aircraft are compliant. Here’s an airplane that has a lot of flexibility. Comanche 400 is powered by the 400-horsepower horizontally opposed eight-cylinder Lycoming IO-720 engine, an engine developed specifically for the model.. A cruise speed of only 185 knots, when leveled against a fuel consumption of 23 gallons per hour at high cruise power, isn’t all that impressive, which made the aircraft quite expensive to operate even back in its day (though it was the fastest normally aspirated single back then). All rights reserved. Dual turbochargers allow operation at altitudes up to 25,000 feet. �������%)K�4�/��,��/g8�� MJ�Ly�r")�h�7¬dۃHi�8I�4����ҁ4N��|\���]�1���� Parts, for the most part, are readily available by Piper vendors and Comanche aftermarket specialists. The Comanche is one of the best-built metal singles available, and it can be well maintained at lower cost than aircraft of lesser performance due to the widespread use of generic parts. Its a great aircraft and lots of fun. The Comanche 260 may gain you a few knots but the 250 may be better for your budget. %PDF-1.4 %���� Still, there were some notable improvements over the years. It offers a magazine as well as other resources and can be reached at 405-491-0321 or via the website at www.comancheflyer.com. Parts are primarily through boutique suppliers and rarely a problem to source. No know Damage. Alas, wiser heads-along with, perhaps, a healthy respect for general aviations economy-sidelined the project. The AD list is pretty long, but most of the items are one-time fixes, followed by future inspection. 0000000987 00000 n We call it our magic carpet ride. The looks still turn heads today. I am now 73. Aftermarket gear warning systems are also a good investment to supplement the system originally installed. H�lSKo�0��W��Ƶ�u��"���rp����ޖ������j�J�'k�����_o8t&�T�U�� x��4,�j Owner FeedbackI was 63 years old when I got my pilot license. Meanwhile, Met-Co-Aire (www.metcoaire.com). !�E��U#�W�Q4G� LKX�^`�֡����W�[q����M� H�|�=s�0�w� If you wanted to start out with a cheaper airframe, buy a 180-HP model and do a 260-HP conversion with fuel injection. United, Archer Partner On Short-Haul Electric Aircraft, Re.Invent Air Mobility Initiative Participants Selected, How A Split Second Wrong Decision Caused the Kobe Bryant Fatal…, How This Illustration Fueled My Obsession With The Bell X-1, EAA Posts Initial AirVenture 2021 Health And Safety Measures, Sriwijaya Air Prelim Highlights Thrust Imbalance, FAA Investigating Latest SpaceX Starship Test, Rolls-Royce Conducts Unblended SAF Tests On BizJet Engine, Report Calls For Multi-Pathway Approach To Mitigating Aviation Lead, Avionics: Down For 2020 But Showing Signs of Recovery, Wireless Utility Controls Jammed GPS Near Airport, uAvionix Launches pingStation 2 ADS-B Receiver. The increase in cruising speed was minuscule when compared with the fuel flow and noise. More important for the discriminating used aircraft buyer, the Comanche lends itself to upgrading, and owners who bring the airplane up to the state-of-the-art tend to hang onto them forever. A side benefit of the standard turbo installation is that it’s quieter than the normally aspirated Comanche C. The -N1A5 engine, beefed up to handle the boost pressure and higher temperatures at altitude, is just as robust as the normally aspirated engine; both have a 2000-hour TBO. An American General Tiger with fixed gear goes just as fast and another contemporary retractable, the Mooney M20C or M20E, will outrun the 180. One on the landing gear (AD 77-13-21) mandates replacement of landing gear bungees every 500 hours or three years to prevent landing gear collapse after manual extension. The cruise speed is 185 kts, the stall speed is 59 kts, and the range is 1,000 miles. startxref Robertson Stol. The Lycoming 540 aspirated engine is bullet-proof, according to fellow flyers. I have a nasty (and fun) habit of making airplanes go fast. In 1966, the Comanche B, with a fuel-injected 260-HP Lycoming IO-540-D4A5, a boosted gross weight (now 3100 pounds) and two more seats were added to the lineup, starting with serial number 24-4300. All of the fuel bladders should be replaced with new ones. �5fe�9���q�/q�G�J��h��r��:�G��OYw���Zc���v^Z���O� kӺY����|���7�3Dm"}�+��-#�k���L It was not a particularly pleasant airplane to fly. 0000008283 00000 n In my quest to make my Comanche 400 faster, I started a project two years ago to install a belt driven Either way, a realistic budget should be around $100,000. Myths abound about the Comanche being difficult to land smoothly because of a tendency to float during the flare, then settle sharply. I’ve found that landing gear bungees generally need replacement at every annual inspection. Airworthy Comanche Forum - Turbo 400 - Doug, One thing you left off that is different on the 400, is the airspeed indicator. The Piper Comanche 400 is the show-stopping, top-of-the-line Comanche model. 0000001675 00000 n The aircraft are relatively complex—certainly when compared to, for example, a Cessna 182—so they shouldn’t be thought of as cheap to maintain. & Patterned after the P-51 Mustang, Mr. Piper installed a 400-HP engine into his slick Comanche. The original airplane had a 60-gallon fuel system. This Twin Comanche is in an extremely beautiful showroom condition! The airplane also gained cowl flaps and an aileron-rudder interconnect. The ICS can help on both counts, with a list of qualified instructors and shops familiar with the airplane. besides simplicity, the added advantage is that you control the amount of boost, so you get what you want, not a fixed amount. The trick—as it is with any older aircraft—is finding a shop or technician experienced in the type. ), plus fuel bladder service every 10 years. 15 20 In fact, the Comanche was the fastest production airplane manufactured with a 180-horsepower engine. We had numerous fly-ins and some experiences would never have happened if it wasn’t for our Comanche. If you want to coax Comanche 260 speeds from a 250 model, try using the 260s power settings. Insurance is $1450 yearly for the $85,000 hull value on my airplane. The Comanche comes in many flavors—meaning horsepower—from 180 to 400. The big engine gives these airplanes excellent climb performance, as much as 1500 FPM. This, in turn, is due to the airplane’s tail-low stance when sitting on its gear. X\,�$ING��.��7�e��w0u6N�m�8A��}o��B` ��'���l3�\��Y�L�rY��A~_�-�Q�89fg�* As for mission capability, we recently flew from Fond du Lac, Minnesota, to Muskogee, Oklahoma, in 3.5 hours. The airframes of these Comanches essentially were the same—it’s possible to upgrade the 180 to the larger engine—although the 250 boasted a significantly higher gross weight: 2800 pounds versus 2550 pounds for the 180. But Howard Piper had other plans. Strong crosswinds and short field landings are straightforward. �w&���L=�2�����-y The ICS also offers a technical support service when you and your mechanic need someone to talk to. With a 90-gallon fuel capacity and 13-15 gallon-per-hour fuel burn, it’s an efficient 155-knot airplane. This rocket ship of a Comanche was only produced for a year and a half by Piper, and remains one of the fastest non-turbocharged production airplanes on the market today. The fifth and sixth seats, when available, are suitable only for children or the smallest of adults. My first and only aircraft has been my Comanche 250, which spent most of its life in Texas. The Piper Comanche 400 is powered by a Lycoming IO-720-A1A engine. This should be the first step before any aftermarket mods are installed. With the plane on jacks, swing the gear and look for loose fits and bushings. Advertisement 1964 Piper Comanche 400 New price (1964): $36,890 Used price: $128,000 Engine make/model: Lycoming IO-720 A1A TBO (hrs. "2��_!buYR�X*�4��Xc��y�-�����z�o ȣ>�������>��g C9�i���!,ڀ���x3��h-�q��& S���yB=5��̹3�]ti��3�I�� �? I thought I was dreaming. A competent tech can generally rig a cabin door in an afternoon. The Comanche 400 has a reputation for being hard to start when hot, though there was a so-called purge kit available from Piper that reportedly lessened the problem. Mods, ClubsThere are so many mods available for the Comanche line that probably no two aircraft are alike today. 15 0 obj <> endobj According to my instructor at the time, it had a nice set of instruments. The added seats are in the baggage compartment. Piper introduced the 400 hp version of the Comanche, and by mid-year, started producing the 1965 model year—the first of the 260 hp Comanches. Dual turbos allow operation at altitudes up to 25,000 feet. I brought this Comanche into the age of modern avionics, upgrading from Garmin GNS530 and GNS430 navigators to Garmin GTN750 and GTN 650 touchscreen units, in addition to a Stormscope, satellite weather, S-TEC 60 autopilot with GPS steering, HSI and a J.P. Instruments color engine monitor with fuel computer. Speaking of ICS, owners tell us the group is an exceptionally good resource for Comanche owners. However, the empty weight is also higher, by 337 pounds. Of course, this plane is being sold as-is, where-is, and Buyer will be responsible for all costs related to the engine overhaul, transportation of the plane and putting the plane back into annual. Fewer than 150 of the 400-horsepower models were built. LoPresti Speed Merchants (www.speedmods.com) offers, among other mods, the “Wholey Cowl” originally dreamed up for the Comanche’s resurrection, along with a three-blade “SynchroPulse” prop. The mods that can offer the most speed include relocating the brakes to the inside of the gear forks, gap seals, wheel well slippers and wingroot fairings, both front and rear. There’s also a good supply of aftermarket and PMA’d parts for commonly needed items. COMANCHE 400 TURBO WITH STOL • $93,000 • AVAILABLE • 5500TT 200smoh in 2005 by Brodie’s aircraft, prop 250 spoh. In my opinion, there is no reason to own a 180 Comanche unless you are consumed with fuel range and can tolerate the vibration from the engine being so far out from the firewall. Featuring a 400 horsepower, 11.6 liter Lycoming IO-720-A1A offering unrivaled ... More Info Meanwhile, Met-Co-Aire (www.metcoaire.com). Also, the carbureted O-540 found in the Comanche 250 may be upgraded to fuel injection. The landing gear system certainly is not complicated but a review of service difficulty reports indicates it’s a top sore spot, along with general airframe corrosion, and engine/prop issues. Given the value of the airframe, all these aftermarket mods dont make much sense, but when you own a plane for 30 years, these things happen. just like the turbo aztecs and turbo twin comanche, this airplane has a manual control to close the dual wastegates, activating the dual rayjay turbochargers !! According to my instructor at the time, it had a nice set of instruments. �s@n���^�n�;��[&9׽�ܑ��1c�.��zxB� կb�(G�$�I�{������(;�m���x� Some pilots pump up the main gear oleos to reduce the tendency, or install a smaller nosewheel tire to reduce the static angle of attack on takeoff. Not many singles can match it. 0000006247 00000 n The 180, which obviously came second to its bigger brother in load carrying and was not selling as well as the 250, was dropped altogether while the 250 was upgraded to the 260. Logs back to 1984 first 20 years missing. At busy airports, there’s no problem keeping approach speeds right in the flow. Description. I just thought I’d write to let you know how much I like my Comanche 400, N64400. Patterned after the P-51 Mustang, Mr. Piper installed a 400-HP engine into his slick Comanche. There are so many mods available for the Piper Comanche line that probably no two aircraft are alike today. I thought I was dreaming. Since it’s important that the flight controls are properly rigged (while assuring the landing gear and landing gear doors are retracted fully and fit flush.) The interior trim, instrument panel, seats and doors fit poorly. Recurring ADs on any aircraft can run up the cost of operation, and Comanches are no different. With practice and with gear down, finals for a precision approach can be flown at 130 knots and, with the gear up, even faster. The aircraft can then be slowed in the last few hundred feet to land short and turn off at the first taxiway. In its first production year, two models were offered: the 180-HP PA-24-180 Comanche and a 250-HP version, the PA-24-250. As for range, even an old 250 model with 60 gallons of fuel will generally go from Western Massachusetts to North Carolina in 3.5 hours with one hour of fuel remaining. In flight, the Comanche is smooth, stable and tight, with a climb rate that is impressive and difficult to prevent. The interior trim, instrument panel, seats and doors fit poorly. Like other airplanes of this era, the interior is loud and drafty. With a Comanche expert doing the maintenance, these systems have been trouble-free for me, but not cheap. N,}d�к��D)l�Puhc`���t�'����-t���:�Y��U�w�Zغ��.��Ԫ�TWO�#Y�����d@i��eF��S㇝k�Ns��g�FeBAT��9�4&ڼ�^� ��[I2����%(���Wx�a� I own another more modern pressurized airplane, but for fun, the Comanche is my first choice. If you want to coax Comanche 260 speeds from a 250 model, try using the 260’s power settings. The airframe is essentially identical to the 250, except the 400 uses the Piper Aztec stabilizer. �78�$��e�fm���+�z�-��s�bВ\��E��/�����`�J�j�$W"xy�_ ��;Fp��67�w�b�E The landing gear and stabilator are unique to Comanches, and a knowledgeable mechanic is required. 0000000016 00000 n Those extra two pulses really make a difference because a smooth engine is a happy engine. Piper did the turbo 260 installation properly by providing check valves and a turbo oil sump. H�|TK�� ��W��52���V�l�V��R��:8�%�k���;���f������ )��] Speeds are up around 155 to 160 knots at cruise, burning about 12 GPH. 35 years ago Piper issued a replacement kit p/n 760-791 to replace the original Bendix pump . The Rajay system essentially had a “second throttle” wastegate control the pilot used to manually set boost at altitude. As seniors, my wife and I enjoy these kinds of flights in the Comanche and certainly don’t miss the hassles of airline terminals and TSA security checks. Today however it has something of a mini cult status. @���R+�� It lands safely and usually smoothly, with the correct speed and an exaggerated flare. Call to make arrangements for a personal inspection and flight demo. ��iv the #1 mod is the twin turbo setup !! 0000002207 00000 n Thomas Warren of Houston is parting with his co-owned Piper Comanche 250 after eight years because of speed. Pilots who don’t understand the undercarriage and its various procedures, particularly the emergency extension procedure, also are a source of problems. If you find the right person and keep them happy, you’ll be happy. �d/fEZ��)�^���ޚ�LKLѥ��/ ���]dG��� ��n�~�H`���y! The Piper PA-24-series Comanche still earns high marks for speed, efficiency and aftermarket support.Mods, Clubs, Owner Feedback. These mods are available for all Comanches except the 400. These and later Comanches can be spotted by the extra cabin window and rear baggage door on the left side, which doubles as an emergency exit. The throttle quadrant has been upgraded to vernier controls and the cabin windows were replaced with thicker, tinted glass. ): 1800 Horsepower@altitude: 400@SL Horsepower on takeoff: … Read More "1964 Piper Comanche 400" The company also offers a stainless steel dual exhaust system.
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